GCSE English Literature podcasts - Anita & Me

HOLLIE McNISH: Hi there, and welcome to our Bitesize English Literature podcast. I'm Hollie McNish, I'm a writer, and we're going to be talking about "Anita and Me" – Meera Syal's novel about a childhood caught between two cultures.

There are some really great themes in this book which you'll need to know for your GCSE exams. We have six podcast episodes covering six key themes: Plot, Friendship, Racism, Belonging, Form and Language, and Character. We'll also have an extra episode with loads of tips on how to remember all these key themes and moments in the book.

Well done for making this time to prepare for your exams. Please feel free to scribble down notes, to pause us, to rewind us and listen again – whatever helps you remember what you've learned.

In this episode we'll be talking about character.

Joining me to chat about the main characters and their key moments in the story is Nafeesa Hamid – a brilliant poet and performer based in the Midlands.

I'm a newbie to this book, but Nafeesa is a big fan of "Anita and Me". Thanks a lot for joining us, Nafeesa. Before we chat about characters I would love to know what you actually the most about this book.

NAFEESA HAMID: I love that it's set in the West Midlands, because I'm from Birmingham. I was born in Pakistan but I've lived in Birmingham for most of my life. It was really nice to be able to read a story that had so many West Midlands references.

So, I first watched the film when I was in Year Six or Year Seven. I remember I was absolutely entranced by it. It was a coming-of-age story with a brown girl as the focal point. That was the first I'd seen a film that.

HOLLIE McNISH: So, we'll start, then, by talking about this central character of the book, Meena Kumar, who's only nine years old at the start of the story. And Meera Syal, the author who wrote "Anita and Me", described Meena as "a rebel and a square peg in a round hole," which I love as a description because it's so visual, and I think everyone's felt that way at some point in their lives.

If you want to stop now and write that down then that would be great. It's really good to put in quotes this in the exam. Examiners love quotes. If you can remember how the author describes Meena, put it in: "A square peg in a round hole."

Anyway, Nafeesa, how would you describe Meena?

NAFEESA HAMID: I would describe Meena as someone who's brave, courageous, someone who's very gutsy. She describes herself as a liar and a thief.

Many derogatory kinds of terms, but I don't think that's the truth about Meena at all. I think she is just someone who's imaginative and creative. But I think sometimes her imagination runs a bit out of control, doesn't it?

HOLLIE McNISH: That is so good that you said that about being imaginative, because it's the idea of being a liar and being imaginative, they're interlinked.

NAFEESA HAMID: Definitely. And she uses it as a kind of coping mechanism. As a survival tool as well. Her imagination is her survival tool.

HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah. Meena describes herself as "too mouthy, clumsy and scabby to be a real Indian girl, too Indian to be a real Tollington wench." And I just wonder if we can unpick that a little bit, what you think about that quote, because it's so important. Write it down. It's a really, really good one to learn. There's loads of language to talk about in it as well.

NAFEESA HAMID: I think it's something that maybe a lot of immigrant children, including Meera Syal, must have felt growing up as well, this feeling of "I don't belong here, and I don't belong there, and I don't quite belong anywhere, I'm too much of everything."

HOLLIE McNISH: When I was doing my GCSEs I would remember the shortest quote, sometimes words and things about the quote. So Meena describes herself as, "Too mouthy, clumsy and scabby to be a real Indian girl, too Indian to be a real Tollington wench."

I call these sentences see-saw sentences, because there's such a symmetry. It repeats exactly the same idea, the same words. You're too this to be this, you're too this to be this. But she's putting them on, isn't she? "Too mouthy, clumsy and scabby to be a real Indian girl."

NAFEESA HAMID: She's putting them on, but I think she also gets described as these things by her aunties, by the people who are around her in this town as well. I think that also plays part in why she describes herself as "too much of this" or "too much of that" is because she's getting it from the outside as well.

HOLLIE McNISH: What do you think about the use of the word "real"? Because I think that's quite a good word for people to put in their exams.

NAFEESA HAMID: I think Meena grows to realise that there is no real Tollington wench and there is no real Indian girl, you are just who you are and that's it. And I think Meena comes to realise: "I am an Indian girl, there's no one and nothing that can take that away from me." "And I am also from Tollington. No one's ever gonna take that away from me."

HOLLIE McNISH: And what about the word "wench"?

NAFEESA HAMID: I had never heard the word "wench".

HOLLIE McNISH: You've never heard it before?

NAFEESA HAMID: I've heard the word "wench", but I'd never heard the idea of a kid wanting to be a wench! [chuckles]

It is quite a funny colloquial term, "wench". It's more of a Black Country term, I'd say, than a Brummie term. In Birmingham we say "bab" or "chick" or "hen". And a "wench", it's another kind of endearing term.

The women of Tollington are described as quite hardy and quite robust. That's what a wench is. Someone, a woman, who's got herself, you know? And I think that's what Meena's after, to be confident enough to be herself – which, ironically, when she's trying so hard to be a wench she ends up being herself.

HOLLIE McNISH: So wench is a Black Country phrase. Just remember that. Local dialect, local words are going into this book. It's full of it. It's full of such different dialogue.

This story revolves around a friendship between Meena and Anita Rutter. So what should we say about the character of Anita?

NAFEESA HAMID: Anita's quite a complicated character, I think. She's quite clearly got a lot going on at home. She is way more mature for her age. She's a bit indifferent and aloof. It seems nothing bothers Anita Rutter. But I've known girls like Anita Rutter, and things are getting to this girl. And we forget sometimes-, I forgot at points that Anita is thirteen. That's a child.

HOLLIE McNISH: All the characters are complicated as well, aren't they? There's no goodies and baddies in this story, I don't think.

NAFEESA HAMID: –There's no black and white with any of the characters and Meera Syal does a really good job of showing us each character as a whole human being with different sides to them and many complexities and a whole history behind them. That has led them to being where they are.

HOLLIE McNISH: And with Anita as well. When Meena describes Anita she describes her as a bully but she also describes her as a victim. You know, she's confident, Anita, or she seems confident. She's popular. She's described as beautiful, but she's also quite ignorant. I love that about the characters in this book. And nobody's saying: "this person is awful".

NAFEESA HAMID: There are no villains. Even Sam Lowbridge. I think Sam Lowbridge and Anita Rutter were the two characters I was quite conflicted around at first, but then by the end of the book I realised there is actually no villain in this book.

HOLLIE McNISH: He is jealous that Meena will be leaving, and he doesn't see himself as being able to leave.

NAFEESA HAMID: There is a quote to follow up with that. He says, "You can move. How come I can't?"

HOLLIE McNISH: It's such a desperate plea, isn't it?

NAFEESA HAMID: And I felt sorry for him in that moment. That was actually the moment where my perception of him changed and I felt pity towards him more than anger.

HOLLIE McNISH: And I think that's the intention of the author, isn't it? She wants us to despise certain actions but I guess despise the actions but not the person, or not the hope that they could change.

So what about Meena's family? So her parents, Daljit and Shyam Kumar, or Mama and Papa?

NAFEESA HAMID: Meena's mum, Daljit Kumar, she is probably my favourite character in the whole book. beause she's so confident in who she is. And she's so elegant and graceful about who she is as well. And there's so many moments in the book where other characters kind of insult her or, you know, speak to her in a derogatory or belittling kind of way, and she always rises above it. Every single time she rises above it.

HOLLIE McNISH: I love that you have a favourite character. And I love that your favourite character is her mum. I think mine is Nanima.

NAFEESA HAMID: But I think Nanima seems to have the kind of strength that holds this entire family together, non-blood relatives included. The aunties and uncles even sit around her. And it's funny because at one point Papa, Shyam Kumar, I think Meena asks him, "Oh, what does that mean? What's Nanima saying?" or "What's she telling a story about?" and he just goes, "Oh, who knows?"

They're just so absolutely enthralled by Nanima. There's just so much love there and so much grounding that she gives all of them, I think, and a sense of who they are and where they've come from.

HOLLIE McNISH: The introduction of Nanima is my favourite metaphor. Meena says, "Suddenly I was in the middle of a soft warm pillow that smelt of cardamom and sweet, sharp sweat."

It's not a simile, it's a metaphor. It is a soft warm pillow with a sweet, sharp sweat. Just write it down because that quote is so good. It's full of alliteration, "sweet, sharp sweat." Three words. Monosyllabic alliteration.

That's all from GCSE Bitesize English Literature podcast. Thanks so much for joining us. And do listen to the other episodes in which Nafeesa and me will be looking at five more key themes: Plot, Friendship, Racism, Belonging, and Form and Language. Search for Bitesize on the BBC SOUNDS app. Good luck with your exams.

HOLLIE McNISH: Hi there, and welcome to our Bitesize English Literature podcast. I'm Hollie McNish, I write poems and books for a living, and I love it.

If you're studying 'Anita and Me' at GCSE, you've come to the right place. Because in this podcast, me and my guest, poet and brilliant performer, Nafeesa Hamid, will be talking about Meera Syal’s coming-of-age novel about a childhood caught between two cultures. India on one side, and the fictional, Tollington, a small village in the Midlands on the other.

There are some really provocative and hopefully interesting themes in this book, which you'll need to write about for your GCSE exams. We have six podcast episodes covering six key themes: friendship, racism, belonging, form and language, character, and finally plot, which we'll be talking about in this episode.

I personally used GCSE Bitesize when I was doing me GCSEs and it really helped me. So, it is lovely to be doing this and we hope it will help you understand the text and to explore the most important things you need to know and consider about 'Anita and Me'.

MEERA SYAL (READING): "‘I’m not lying, honest, papa!’ I pleaded as he took my hand and marched me up the hill towards Mr Ormerod’s grocery shop. The display in Mr Ormerod’s window had been the same for years. A huge cardboard Marmite jar dominated the space with the Player's Capstan cigarette display behind it.

A few days early, Anita Rutter had told me that the sailor, whose face was in the middle of the life belt, was in fact her father. I had been standing outside the shop when she had sauntered past arm in arm with her two regular cohorts, Sherrie and Fat Sally.

It had been the first time Anita had ever talked to me and I wondered what I'd done to deserve it.

HOLLIE McNISH: The book follows two important years in the life of the main character and narrator, Meena Kar, a nine-year girl living in a village in the West Midlands, called Tollington. It is a fictional village, which I did not know when I first read this book. So I want to put that out there, it is fictional, but it's set in the West Midlands.

So Nafeesa, so much happens in this book, there are so many stories told within the main storyline. For me, it's a bit like one branch of a story with loads of little stories springing from it, sometimes quite randomly. It's so packed and vivid and imaginative. And it's just such a portrait of growing up in the late 1960s and 70s, full of flared trousers and power cuts, but also a lot of social unrest and class struggles and racism.

When I’m reading a story like this, I always need context, I want to be there to be in the place and the time so I can really kind of get my head into that background of it. So can you just say a little bit about what life was like in the time and place in this book? What was it like for the main character, Meena Kar, and her family?

NAFEESA HAMID: Her parents travelled over from India; this would've been after the Partition of India. Partition was the separation of India into India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh that occurred in 1947. And the after-effects of that carried on for a long time. Meena's parents are from the Punjab; the Punjab was very heavily affected by this partition.

Half of Punjab ended up in Pakistan, half of Punjab ended up in India. Quite a tumultuous time and most of the violence occurred in Punjab. So, Meena's parents would have faced a lot of hostility. You know, she shares some stories in one of the scenes about some of the things he witnessed and experienced.

HOLLIE McNISH: And 'he' is Meena's dad?

NAFEESA HAMID: Yes. And so, Meena hears some truly horrific stories from her aunts and uncles and her own parents of the things that they witnessed and experienced during this awful time. And then they've landed in Tollington. The mines are closing in Tollington at this time. That's pretty much an entire town's workforce out of work.

I saw a, kind of, mirroring there of the division that Meena's family came from in India to the division that they'd come to in England. There was just so much turmoil in both India and England at that time during the sixties and seventies.

HOLLIE McNISH: It's quite important isn't it that it's a semi-autobiographical novel. An autobiographical novel is when an author writes about their own life. If it’s a semi-autobiographical novel, it’s partly about their own life. So it's based on her and her family's experience, but it's a fictionalised version of that.

I love the way that the author introduces us to Tollington, and its characters.

NAFEESA HAMID: It drops straight into the action. Into the town as it is, which is seemingly quite idyllic at the beginning, isn't it?

HOLLIE McNISH: We're thrown straight into it. The novel's first event, which Meena is marched through Tollington by Papa, by her father, because she's lied about nicking money for sweets. I really love it, it says, "A row of terraced houses clustered around the crossroads, uneven teeth which spread into a gap-toothed smile as the houses gradually became bigger and grander.

The road wandered south, undulating into a gentle hill and finally merging into miles of green fields."

NAFEESA HAMID: And we've got the metaphor there, "was a gap-toothed smile".

HOLLIE McNISH: Gap-toothed smile - it's lovely. And it starts the novel with a lot of action and suspense. Shows Meena as a girl who lies, it introduces Papa, it sets off the relationship that will develop between Meena and Anita. And it sets up this-, this complex structure of the novel.

The story's told with so many digressions. Just to explain what digressions means because I think that’s a good word. If I was listening to this, I’d stop it now and write down the word digression. But digression is where Meena, like, breaks away from the present action to share memories or thoughts about other things that she's thinking, or has seen. And that's a big part of the plot, huh? Lots of digressions throughout it.

NAFEESA HAMID: She flits in between the past and the present. Even in that first scene. She's supposed to be talking about her dad dragging her to Mr Ormerod’s shop to own up to the fact that she'd stolen. But then we get this entire description of the village and everything else around it before we come back to the shop many pages later.

HOLLIE McNISH: When I first started reading this book, I was like, come on, just tell me the story. And it was like-, it's probably the way I talk. And I think that's what the author intended, you're thrown right into the action and I think that's part of it.

NAFEESA HAMID: It feels a bit like reading a journal as well, you know, that kind of jumping back and forth and digressing, like you said earlier. Digressing from the topic.

HOLLIE McNISH: Lovely word! Write it down, digression. Digressing.

NAFEESA HAMID: But you know what, I think by the end of the book, I really understood why Meera Syal had decided to digress so much. Every single memory was important.

HOLLIE McNISH: Every single digression was important, it gave us context for the complexity of every character.

HOLLIE McNISH: Very early on in the book, we're introduced to Anita, and as Meena falls increasingly under Anita's influence, she finds herself initially growing further away from her parents and her Indian culture, because it's really a coming-of-age story - Meena's transition, her learning, her appreciation for herself. I forgot the-, the other great word for a coming-of-age novel.

NAFEESA HAMID: Bildungsroman. And you know how I remember it? There's something about dung that-, you know, like, like, cow dung.

HOLLIE McNISH: Bildungsroman, like roman means novel and bildungs means knowledge of education. So, it's like a novel that you learn something in and the main character learns something. What would you say are the main parts of the plot that are really important for this coming-of-age, bildungsroman for Meena's education growing up?

NAFEESA HAMID: I'll just list quickly some of the main scenes in it, I guess. So we've got her first meeting Anita and making friends with her at that point. Sunil being born - that's also a big, life-changing moment for Meena.

HOLLIE McNISH: That's her younger brother, importantly a brother, not a sister.

NAFEESA HAMID: And then Nanima arrives, she falls off the horse and she breaks her leg - that accident is the main turning point because she uses that time in hospital to erase Anita out her life.

HOLLIE McNISH: Like a pencil drawing she says, I'm going to erase Anita out my life.

She does really well at that until Tracey comes knocking on the door, and says my sister's being killed. This is the night before Meena's eleven-plus exam. It's a very important night.

HOLLIE McNISH: She's alone, no one's with her.

NAFEESA HAMID: She's alone, this is the first time her parents have left her alone, she wants to behave, she's been given some amount of responsibility to lock the door, not open the door to anybody. And then Meena, I realised-, Meena says, "I realised I had abandoned every promise, every good endeavour in a second".

HOLLIE McNISH: But she'd done it for good.

NAFEESA HAMID: So she goes with Tracey thinking they're about to rescue Anita from some savage attack.

HOLLIE McNISH: So she goes with Tracey because she thinks Anita is in some sort of danger, but actually when they get there, they realise Anita and Sam are-.

NAFEESA HAMID: Have just had intercourse.

HOLLIE McNISH: I feel like this is another huge turning point. There's power struggles all through this book and it's narrated through Meena. And there's so much about her feeling like other people have got it better, or they're the powerful ones, especially Anita with her friendship. When Sam kissed Meena, it's such a turning of power, it says, "And then he kissed me like I thought he would, and I let him, feeling mighty and huge, knowing I had won and that every time he saw another Meena on a street corner he would remember this and feel totally powerless".

NAFEESA HAMID: I think Meena's in power in that moment. Or empowered in this moment. There's still an abuse of power going on because Sam's older and that bit that makes me feel uncomfortable in Sam's actions. But Meena, as a character, I’m proud of her almost.

HOLLIE McNISH: That's all from Bitesize English Literature for now. Please check out the other episodes on BBC Sounds in which we'll be exploring more of the key themes in 'Anita and Me'. Good luck with your exams.

HOLLIE McNISH: Hello, and welcome to our GCSE Bitesize English Literature podcast. I'm Hollie McNish. GCSE Bitesize helped me a lot when I was studying for my exams, so well done for making this time to prepare for yours. Over seven episodes we'll be talking about 'Anita and Me' – Meera Syal's coming-of-age novel about a childhood caught between two cultures. We have six podcast episodes covering six key themes: Character, Plot, Friendship, Racism, Belonging, and Form and Language.

There's a lot of crossover between these themes, so it would be great to listen to all the podcasts because each podcast will help with multiple themes.

We'll also have an additional episode with a lot of tips on how we remember and how you could remember all these key themes and moments and quotes in the book.

Today we'll be looking in particular at what the novel says about friendship. Friendship can be the best, most loving feeling, and the worst feeling, and everything in between, and this book for me captures that struggle – the love and hate of friendship – so, so brilliantly.

This is Meera Syal, the author, reading from her book 'Anita and Me'.

MEERA SYAL (READING): "'What yow got?' I held out my crumpled bag of stolen sweets. She peered inside disdainfully, then snatched the bag off me and began walking away as she ate. I watched her go, confused. Anita shouted over her shoulder, 'Yow coming, then?'"

HOLLIE McNISH: So that's the first time Anita and Meena meet. The spine of this book is about this relationship between Meena and Anita, two very different girls in many ways with two very different upbringings. Joining me to dissect the friendship between Anita and Meena is the very lovely poet and performer Nafeesa Hamid who is a big fan of 'Anita and Me'.

So the first proper meeting between Anita and Meena really sets up the nature of the friendship between these two girls. Nafeesa, how do you think Syal uses that first encounter to set the tone for their later relationship?

NAFEESA HAMID: Meena uses that word, doesn't she, "deserve". "Do I deserve to be this girl's friend?" And I think that instantly sets up this idea that there's a power imbalance, that Meena's so desperately wanting to be friends with this cool girl, and she thinks she's not worthy of being friends with this girl as well.

HOLLIE McNISH: And what do you think the nature of the friendship is between them?

NAFEESA HAMID: I think at the beginning Anita's presented as someone who's quite confident in herself and just a bit more grown up than Meena. But then also her innocence comes through as well, the fact that they're just kids. Like for instance the scene where Anita shows Meena the butterfly eggs. And it all seems quite innocent, you know! And then she goes and, like, squashes all the eggs.

HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah, she flicks them. She flicks the twig at Meena's legs to get a reaction. And Meena says, "It stung, but I did not pull my legs back and knew this was a test." "I-knew-this-was-a-test." Every word-has-one-syllable, and it's just, so direct from the start. It's so unequal in that way, isn't it? Like you say, Meena talks about "deserving" this friendship.

NAFEESA HAMID: They are deserved in some sense in that you have to work to make a friendship actually continue and grow and blossom, but to feel like you're worthy of someone's company or not?

HOLLIE McNISH: It's a hard start to a relationship, I think. It's not an equal start! Meena sees Anita as her as her best friend and cares about her a lot. Do you think Anita feels the same?

NAFEESA HAMID: Meena definitely sees Anita as her best friend, but I don't think it works the other way round. But, you know what? Towards the end of the book I was questioning that as well. I was questioning how Anita saw Meena. Because Anita's so, like, closed up about everything. Maybe it's hard for her to even admit that Meena is the best friend she's ever had.

HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah.

NAFEESA HAMID: This girl is looking out for her time and time and time again. She thought Anita was being killed and she legged it the night before her very important eleven-plus exam to save this girl that does not seemingly care about Meena whatsoever.

HOLLIE McNISH: Did not visit her in hospital just before that moment–

NAFEESA HAMID: –Exactly.

HOLLIE McNISH: And there's one quote where she says Anita is the girl she wants to be. In what ways do you think Anita influences Meena?

NAFEESA HAMID: So, so many places where Anita's influence on Meena is seen. I don't think Meena is that interested in boys or having a boyfriend until she meets Anita. Anita kind of opens up her eyes to this world that Meena had no clue about.

At one point Anita asks her, "Oh, are yow a virgin?" And, er, Meena has a little think about it, and she goes off and digresses again! And when she comes back she says, "Yeah, I am, actually."

HOLLIE McNISH: When I was looking at the friendship in this novel, Sam's friendships are often based around troublemaking. And I think the author here is making a point about that. Because however complicated this female friendship is between Anita and Meena, there are still moments where they are honest with each other, do talk to each other about intimate things. Whereas when I see Sam at the end, I don't know if he's got any close friends.

NAFEESA HAMID: And we get a lot of direction from our friends. Like, if Sam Lowbridge has got nobody holding him accountable, nobody telling him, "Hey, you know what? What you're doing is a bit messed up actually." And Meena challenges Anita at times. It does happen much later on, but she does challenge her.

HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah. I think the aunties and uncles as well are great characters for friendship in this novel. Meena's life, her house, her weekends are full of these examples of adult friendship – really positive examples of friendship, I think.

NAFEESA HAMID: And positive and negative with the aunties and uncles. Because I think at times she does seem a bit suffocated by the aunties and uncles as well, but I think later on she comes to acknowledge what an important role they play in her life. Because there's the kids in Tollington that do not have that – they don't even have their own parents looking out for them let alone a bunch of aunties and uncles.

And so I think that's a really beautiful thing that she comes to really treasure towards the end of the book.

HOLLIE McNISH: What do you think it is that draws her to Anita?

NAFEESA HAMID: Anita's not accountable to anybody. Anita does whatever Anita wants to do. I think that's what Meena wants as well. She just… I think she's also so secure in her family and feels so safe within her family that she kind of thinks "I can go away and be as rebellious as I like because I can always come back to my safe family at the end of the day."

And I think she chases Anita for the sake of chasing some kind of freedom that she's not able to access around her own family.

HOLLIE McNISH: What point in the novel would you say that it turns? What's the turning point? And what influences that turning point for Meena? Because at first she really hero-worships Anita. By the end of the novel that's not in any way the case. What points could you pinpoint if you were writing about friendship in an exam where you see Meena starting to question Anita?

NAFEESA HAMID: So, at the fair, Meena sees Deidre, Anita's mum, going off with Anita's fairground boyfriend and takes him into a caravan. Meena sees all this happening. And as Anita's coming back and about to, you know, witness all of this, for the sake of preserving Anita's feelings, Meena just quickly distracts her. I think at that point she sees Anita as vulnerable, as someone who can be hurt.

From that point onwards she feels like she needs to look after or save Anita.

HOLLIE McNISH: Meena sees how vulnerable Anita is. She also obviously sees Anita being mean.

NAFEESA HAMID: They're both towing the line of saving and being the one to be saved. They're both towing that line throughout this friendship. And that power dynamic is constantly there, whether it is Anita being nasty and testing Meena, whether it is Meena sacrificing her eleven-plus rest to go and save Anita.

HOLLIE McNISH: I think Nanima has a big role to play in the – not dissolution of this friendship, but in, I guess, raising Meena's confidence in her identity, but also in terms of this friendship with Anita and maybe not needing it as much.

NAFEESA HAMID: Definitely. I definitely agree with that. I think Nanima coming, that's a pivotal point. Meena treats Nanima as a friend. They become friends. Nanima becomes her new best friend. And I knew that that's the truth when Nanima finally announces that she's leaving to go back to India.

HOLLIE McNISH: Meena's gone into hospital, hasn't she, at that point? She stays in hospital, but she does meet somebody in hospital. Robert! She meets Robert! And would you call that friendship? Because he does say that she's his girlfriend.

NAFEESA HAMID: They've got a platonic friendship, I think. Even when he says to her, "Yeah" when she asks, "Oh, like, do you have a girlfriend?" and he goes, "Yeah" – hint, hint.

HOLLIE McNISH: Exciting moment.

NAFEESA HAMID: I think that's a genuine, loving thing he's done there. Because I thought at that point that Robert knows he's going to die, and he was giving them both what they needed at that point. And the whole romantic element to it was part of the playfulness of being friends.

HOLLIE McNISH: I think Robert is so important in this novel. If you're thinking of the author's intention, which you have to think about for your GCSEs, if an author's writing a story and then there's this sort of sub-plot and sub-character, I think Meera Syal's done that on purpose to teach her about friendship.

One of the things that hit me about this novel in terms of friendship is how much Meena learnt about friendship. In a way, Anita taught her a lot about friendship. She kind of helped her with the confidence to stand up for herself.

She learnt friendship through Nanima. She learnt you fancy someone but still friendship is so important in that. And Anita didn't. By the end of the book she doesn't have a friend, but she also doesn't have a family. Everything that Meena has, Anita doesn't have.

NAFEESA HAMID: I think I'm wanting to cry thinking about Anita the character, because you're right, she does not have anyone by the end.

HOLLIE McNISH: So, I could get carried away talking about it, but in the exam you have to have quotes! Two of the quotes that I like with Meena and Anita, the first one is that Anita is the girl she wants to be. And for me that stands out so much. OK, language. I'm gonna say it all the time, but the author uses a lot of monosyllabic words, that is words with one syllable, and they often make sentences seem punchier and seem a bit more sure of themselves.

So when Meena hero-worships Anita she says Anita is – and then is every one syllable – the-girl-she-wants-to-be.

So do you have a favourite quote or a quote that you think is a lovely one to finish up on about friendship?

NAFEESA HAMID: I'm just thinking about that bit where Meena's in hospital and she's had quite a difficult day and she doesn't want to talk to Robert because she's learnt that Nanima is leaving. "But even in the darkness, even in the darkness" – that's the quote – "even in the darkness…"

HOLLIE McNISH: Very nice.

NAFEESA HAMID: Like, "she knew he was watching her." To me that is friendship, just that comfort of knowing someone's there.

HOLLIE McNISH: That's all from Bitesize English Literature for now. Thanks so much for joining us. And do listen to the other episodes in which Nafeesa and me are talking about five more key themes: Character, Plot, Racism, Belonging, and Form and Language. Search for Bitesize on the BBC SOUNDS app.

HOLLIE McNISH: Hi there, and welcome to our Bitesize English Literature podcast. Over seven episodes we're going to be talking about 'Anita and Me' – Meera Syal's coming-of-age novel about a childhood caught between two cultures. My name is Hollie McNish, and I'm joined by fellow poet and performer Nafeesa Hamid to talk about what we love about this book and to explore some of the things we find most interesting. There are some really important themes in this book which you'll need to write about in your GCSE exams.

We have six podcast episodes covering key themes: Character, Plot, Friendship, Racism, Belonging, and Form and Language.

We'll also have an extra episode with tips on how we remember all these key themes and moments and quotes and ideas in the book.

Today we're going to be looking in particular at what the novel says about racism. It is set in the 1970s and reflects a certain time in Britain and certain attitudes to immigration. Immigration means when people born in one country move to another country, in this case when people move into Britain. It's important to understand that the kind of derogatory and offensive language used in this book to describe immigrants is hurtful and damaging.

So how is racism depicted in 'Anita and Me' and what is the impact of racism on the lives of some of the main characters?

Not all novels give clear opinions about the themes within them, but for me there is a clear message in this novel in terms of racism. Nafeesa, would you agree with that?

NAFEESA HAMID: It's damaging, isn't it? It's damaging to everybody in this book. And a lot of it stems from a place of ignorance, of not knowing, and not wanting to know either.

HOLLIE McNISH: I'd say the racism in this book is not simple. Racism in 'Anita and Me' has so many different guises. Some are unintentional – people don't know they're being racist. Some come from a place of total ignorance, some from misdirected rage.

NAFEESA HAMID: Some of it's obvious, some of it's not, and how it all trickles down and affects generation after generation unless it is challenged.

HOLLIE McNISH: What would you say are the most poignant examples in terms of this theme?

NAFEESA HAMID: For me, the example of racism that most stands out is where Meena's mum is driving her to a gurdwara. A gurdwara is a place of worship for Hindus, and Meena's family are Hindu. So her mum takes her along to her first gurdwara trip. Now, at this point Meena's mum is… I think she's passed her driving test but she's still semi-learning.

HOLLIE McNISH: She's nervous.

NAFEESA HAMID: Yeah, she's very nervous! And she stalls the car on a hill. Now, Meena's panicking because there's a whole queue of people behind that "Mum's now telling me I've got to go and tell all those people, 'Backup everybody, my mum needs to reverse!'"

NAFEESA HAMID: As she gets to the final car and this old woman says something very nasty to her, Meena's response to what this woman has said to her is physical. She feels "as if I had been punched." And you know what? She walks back to the car, doesn't say a thing, and her mum doesn't say anything either. Like, they're both quiet. It's like there's this knowingness, unsaid knowingness of what's just occurred.

HOLLIE McNISH: A lot of the other characters in this book, a lot of the racism is between children and young people.

NAFEESA HAMID: But this one incident was an adult towards a child.

HOLLIE McNISH: Yes.

NAFEESA HAMID: That was so shocking. There's something more forgiveable about a child treating another child in that way, but not an adult treating a child in that way.

HOLLIE McNISH: The language is so visceral. Like at the fête after Sam's racist outburst, racist speech, whatever you would call it, and Meenacsays it leaves her feeling "like she'd been punched in the stomach". And when she hears Anita boasting about the attack on an Indian man, it leaves Meena "retching quietly into the open drain outside the stable".

NAFEESA HAMID: I think she also says at one point, "This kind of hatred could not be explained." There's no words left to even describe the amount of hurt that is caused because it's just so senseless, because it's based on appearance.

HOLLIE McNISH: And that's a very adult statement. I know it's first-person narration through the eyes of a child, but this, I think this is the author coming through.

NAFEESA HAMID: Mm.

HOLLIE McNISH: It's a very adult way to speak. Really, there's so much to say about this language, and this physicality and violence in the language.

NAFEESA HAMID: Whether it's feeling "punched" or "retching". Or where she says, "I feel like I was spat at."

HOLLIE McNISH: But there are characters apart from Meena and her family that could be argued to be damaged by racism. It's very interesting, it's clever, I think. The intention of the narrator is it doesn't just damage Meena.

NAFEESA HAMID: No. It damages many other characters, the perpetrators included. Sam Lowbridge, all this rage is ultimately destroying his own sense of who he is and what role he plays in this town. You know, he's on his own at the end. The man who was actually beaten up, that's a clear example of somebody who was directly affected.

And then you've got Anita who's not actively joining in with the racist act, the act of violence, but she is being violent just by standing on the side watching.

HOLLIE McNISH: Meera Syal never lets us off the hook. Things are never easy. She is not saying: this person is bad, this person is a racist; it's like there are acts of racism. Meena telling Tracey is very insulting. The dog's name is very insulting. You know, Tracey says, "Mum chose it." And then when Meena's mum and dad talk about the name of this pet, her mum says, "These no-good, ignorant English." Her dad laughs at their ignorance, amused by their ignorance, and says, "They don't know it is an insult."

The context of this novel is so important in terms of racism. It's in the 1960s and '70s, the Race Relations Act 1968. Before then you were allowed to deny somebody a home. Landlords could say "We don't want you here because you're black. You can't have this job." It was legal to discriminate based on race. And there is threaded all through this novel, seemingly insignificant racism.

NAFEESA HAMID: Right at the start of the book you've got, Mr Ormerod's shop. Meena thinks to herself, "Africa was abroad, we were from abroad, he thinks of us all as the same." That kind of attitude potentially encourages Meena to go and steal the charity tin box for "Babies in Africa".

I think Meena feels a lot of discomfort around these very seemingly small moments, and I think it all gets pent up. So when Meena goes into Mr Ormerod's shop with Anita, and Pinky and Baby as well, so it's the four of them, they go into Mr Ormerod's shop. Meena sees Anita steal some sweets or something from the counter as Mr Ormerod's round the back, and Meena at that point chooses "I am going to steal something as well."

And the thing, the very specific thing she decides to steal is the charity tin box, just to kind of get a one-up on Mr Ormerod.

HOLLIE McNISH: So I've been getting quite excited about quotes. Quotations illustrate and back up your argument. If you've got a point, find a quote to back it up. They're there to help you. If you can remember a quote it often helps you remember the theme and the story. So make them quotes that you like and that you remember.

One of my favourite quotes that made me think "Yes! Go on, Meena", that sort of feeling – was when she said to Sam, "I am the others."

NAFEESA HAMID: "I am the others."

MEERA SYAL (READING):

"'Those things you said at the spring fête, what were you trying to do?' Sam grabbed me by the wrists. 'I never meant you, Meena. It was all the others, not you.' I put my face right up to his. 'I am the others, Sam. You did mean me.'"

HOLLIE McNISH: This idea is such a common thing, isn't it? "Oh, not you. You're all right, but it's the others." "I am the others, Sam." Telling him, "Don't give me this."

NAFEESA HAMID: I could feel it coming. I felt I could have been waiting the whole book for, you know, Meena to finally stand up and say something, and then she says it. "I am the others."

HOLLIE McNISH: It's so all-encompassing, this theme of racism in the novel. And it's really important that you've got a child's perspective. You've got the perspective of people who are being racist, those who are victims of racism. You've got unintended racism, you've got ignorance, you've got absolutely intended racism. You've got violence, and you've got the prejudice that leads to it, and you've got the political structures. The author intentionally has adults discussing the politics.

That's all from Bitesize English Literature for now. Thanks so much for joining us. And please do listen to the other episodes in which Nafeesa and me are talking about five more key themes: Character, Plot, Friendship, Belonging, and Form and Language. Also check out my Bitesize English Literature podcast about "Romeo and Juliet". To find these titles and more from our Bitesize podcasts, search for Bitesize on the BBC SOUNDS app.

HOLLIE MCNISH: Welcome to our Bitesize English literature podcast. I'm Hollie McNish. Over seven episodes, we're talking about 'Anita and Me', Meera Syal's coming-of-age novel about a childhood caught between two cultures. We have six podcast episodes covering the key themes.

In episode seven, we'll be giving you some extra tips on how to remember all these key themes and moments in the book, as well as some of our favourite and most helpful quotes. Please write down notes, words, your own ideas, pause, rewind and listen again, whatever works to get the information and ideas in your head.

Today, we'll be talking about belonging. Here's a short extract from the book, read by the author, Meera Syal.

MEERA SYAL (READING): 'Mum, I'm starved, I am,' I wheedled. Give me something to eat.' ‘There’s rice and daal inside. Go and wash your hands.’ ‘I don’t want that…that stuff! I want fishfingers! Fried! And chips! Why can’t I have what I want to eat?’

HOLLIE MCNISH: Joining me to talk about Meena's desire to fit in, is Nafeesa Hamid. A brilliant poet and performer based in the Midlands, who is a big fan of both the author and the book 'Anita and Me'. Meena's a kid caught between her Indian culture and the white English community she's growing up in.

Nafeesa, you grew up in Birmingham, but your parents came to Britain from Pakistan. Does Meena's story resonate with your own experience and is that one of the reasons you love this book?

NAFEESA HAMID: I resonated very much with that cultural conflict of, you know, "who is my duty to?", really. Is it to finding out who I am, or is it to my family and my culture? But also I was lucky enough to grow up in an area where everyone did look like me. Meena did not have that; Meena grew up in Tollington where they were the only Indian family.

HOLLIE MCNISH: That's a fictional village but it's semi-autobiographical, this novel isn't it, so it's fictional, but it reflects a lot of the author's childhood.

NAFEESA HAMID: Exactly and I never really had that. This book's made me feel very grateful for what I did have though growing up. People who looked like me, who talked like me. I know when my family first moved to this country, my grandparents all decided to move to the same area. Much like Meena's aunties and uncles, they all decide to live in the bigger cities.

But it's Meena's mum that really is so desperate to hold onto the country where she grew up. And I think it's something that Meena really, kind of, picks up on that quite a lot is how much her parents miss home. I think Meena towards the end of the book realises that home is wherever she is.

HOLLIE MCNISH: For me, that's one of the reasons Meena's sense of belonging is so complicated, because there's this idea that you have to choose a side. Are you this, or are you that?

NAFEESA HAMID: She uses the word 'too'- too much of this and too much of that.

HOLLIE MCNISH: Yeah, Meena says she's "too mouthy, clumsy and scabby to be a real Indian girl, too Indian to be a real Tollington wench" - that is a great quote. We've talked about it before in the episode on character, but this is a really good quote for belonging as well, so it's a good one to learn isn't it?

"Too mouthy, clumsy and scabby to be a real Indian girl, too Indian to be a real Tollington wench". And we talked about the language in that, so go and listen to the episode on character to hear about the language. So why do you like this quote so much for this theme of belonging?

NAFEESA HAMID: I really love that quote for this particular theme as well. Because by the end of the book, I think what Meena realises is that she belongs to herself, she can be all of these things. She can be a Tollington wench and an Indian girl at the same time. She can be both and all of it.

HOLLIE McNISH: And I'm really happy for Meena that she's finally able to see that later on in the book.

HOLLIE MCNISH: Me too. This is a bildungsroman, it's a coming-of-age novel, Meena growing up, she's young and she's so desperate to fit in with the other kids. There's a section, which I just love; Meena's talking in front of Anita, putting on this yam-yam accent.

NAFEESA HAMID: The yam-yam accent that she puts on - that's what the Black Country accent is called and it's different to the Brummie accent.

HOLLIE MCNISH: And Pinky picks up on it, and I just love it because they're all standing there. Anita is on one side and then Baby and Pinky are on the other, and she's like 'Oh no, everyone's here.' And then she talks in her yam-yam accent, or dialect, and Pinky says, "Meena didi, why are you speaking so strangely?"

MEERA SYAL (READING): Anita was already waiting at my front gate. ‘Am yow comin’ then, our Meena?’ ‘Me cousins are here,’ I said sullenly, ignoring the hurt looks on their faces. ‘I’m supposed to look after em …’ 'Well, yow’ll have to bring ‘em then, won’t ya?’ I pulled Pinky to one side, ‘Yow can come with uz, right, but don’t show me up, got it?’

Pinky nodded, ‘Meena didi, why are you speaking so strangely?’ ‘Coz this ain’t naff old Wolverhampton anymore. This, Pinky, is Tollington. Right?’

NAFEESA HAMID: She doesn't speak with the yam-yam accent to her parents, to her family really. Generally, she is very good at code-switching.

HOLLIE MCNISH: Code-switching? You said that Meena code switches, what do you mean by that?

NAFEESA HAMID: Changing the way you're speaking is about adapting who we are and how we present in situations where we might feel alienated or ostracised, we might not be accepted for who we are. It's something that I definitely grew up doing and I know a lot of other children of immigrants.

But also, say if you're working class and you walk into a very middle class or upper-class environment. And suddenly you're no longer speaking in your yam-yam accent, you'll suddenly put on a posh accent. Or another example of code-switching is when my mum or one of my aunties picks up the phone to a receptionist or somebody, suddenly they're not speaking to like-, how they speak to me, they'll be more posh. They'll put on their best voice.

HOLLIE MCNISH: And this is why I think Nanima is so important here; this idea of belonging, of being comfortable with yourself.

NAFEESA HAMID: Nanima plays a crucial role in Meena feeling more like she belongs somewhere to someone. Nanima comes along and she sees commonality. And I think even more than that; Nanima only speaks Punjabi, she does not speak English and they've now got this language barrier. Meena realises, if I want to connect with Nanima, I've got to learn Punjabi.

HOLLIE MCNISH: So, we've talked about Meena and her family, Nanima as well. Are there other characters in the book that you would bring in to an essay about belonging?

NAFEESA HAMID: I would also bring into this conversation about belonging, Anita Rutter and Sam Lowbridge. Anita comments at one point saying she wants to move to London. I think her and Meena make plans to do that at some point.

And you've also got Sam Lowbridge who asks Meena at one point, "How come you get to escape and I don't? Why don't I get to escape?"

HOLLIE MCNISH: Meena's desperate at first to belong there, and Anita and Sam are both quite desperate not to belong there. So, you spoke about a quote at the beginning which I thought was really nice. I'm just going to say it again, that by the end of the book, I guess Meena comes to understand that culture and identity are mainly driven by love.

And she has a lot of love, despite everything of her family, her history and then finally quite a lot of self-love and confidence at the end. And the quote "the place in which I belonged was wherever I stood." Oh, it's just so lovely.

NAFEESA HAMID: It is isn't it? She's finally come to terms with the fact that it is 'to herself' that she belongs. That realisation that home is the people we surround ourselves with, and who show us love and who we love in turn as well - that is home.

HOLLIE MCNISH: For me, I feel like one of the main messages of the author is that and also just the idea that you don't have to choose. It's okay to love the daal and love the fish fingers, you can even dip the fish fingers in the daal if you want to have a really disgusting combination.

That's all from Bitesize English literature for now, thanks so much for listening. There are six other episodes available for you to listen to, in which Nafeesa and me explore other key themes in the book. These are character, plot, friendship, racism, and form and language. Search for Bitesize on the BBC Sounds app.

HOLLIE MCNISH: Hi there, and welcome to our Bitesize English Literature podcast. I'm Hollie McNish, I'm a writer and I've taken a lot of exams like these over the years. I used GCSE Bitesize myself when I was revising, and it really helped me. We're hoping this podcast will also help you.

Over seven episodes, we're talking about the most important and most interesting themes of 'Anita and Me', Meera Syal's coming-of-age novel. We have six podcast episodes covering six key themes. So, scribble down notes, pause us whenever you want, rewind us, and listen to us again when you need a refresher. Whatever helps to fix the information in your head.

Today, we'll be looking at how the author, Meera Syal, has structured the novel and how she uses language in lots of specific ways to tell the story and to make the story more interesting and more effective. Joining me to explore the writing is poet and performer Nafeesa Hamid who's a big fan of this book.

So, in terms of form, this is a bildungsroman. Roman means novel and bildungs means knowledge or education. So it's like a novel in which the main character, Meena, goes on a journey of self-discovery. So, this is one of the forms, this is one of the most important things about the forms. Get it into your exam, it'll sound very good. What point of view is it written from, because that's important as well isn't it?

NAFEESA HAMID: So it's written in first person. You've got I, I, I, I. And that makes it an intimate story about the protagonist, the main character, Meena.

HOLLIE MCNISH: I would add to that it's got this great juxtaposition which means it's two things that are contrasting. It shows this juxtaposition of cultures, like she's between cultures. But the narration is also between this child narrator, because it's through the eyes of Meena as she's moving from nine, to ten, to eleven.

But it’s written from memory of her as an adult. There's some language in it which is very childish, like when she describes herself as "scabby". I'm going to use that quote again, but she says she's "too scabby", amongst other words, "to be a real Indian girl".

There's also a very adult tone. There's a line where she said "my contentment made me benevolent". Which meant that when she was happy, it made her more kind, she thought. It was easier to be kinder when she was content with herself and her life. And phrases like that, that's not from a nine or ten or eleven-year-old.

NAFEESA HAMID: That’s from adult Meena speaking, looking back.

HOLLIE MCNISH: So, language, there is a lot to say about the language in this book, you could write a lot. You don't have all the time in the world in an exam. Nafeesa, what two points to do with language do you think you'd make if you were in an exam writing about the use of language in 'Anita and Me'?

NAFEESA HAMID: What I've found interesting is the dialogue. So, it's the colloquialisms, the languages other than English that are used and what role they play. We've got Punjabi and English - they're the main two languages that are used.

But then we've also got the local Black Country dialect that is used. Also the aunties and the uncles, they have their own mishmash of English-Punjabi mixed together as well. That's another quite interesting way that language, has taken shape and form.

HOLLIE MCNISH: So in terms of language and form in an exam, it's a case of discussing all the ways that you think the author uses the language and form and also why she uses it. So why do you think that's important for this novel?

NAFEESA HAMID: The Punjabi is bought in to show Meena’s heritage and her culture and to reflect her Punjabi side. A lot of these conversations that they have in Punjabi are usually quite secretive. They're things that Meena should not be knowing about or hearing about.

When Nanima comes along and Meena learns more and more Punjabi, she's now allowed in to the secrets of the adult world that she did not have access to before.

HOLLIE MCNISH: So we've talked about the form, we've talked a little about the dialogue in different-, different languages. But Nafeesa, the language in 'Anita and Me' is so vivid and the author makes such great use of metaphor and simile.

So Nafeesa, if you were about to sit your GCSE exam and you had to answer a question on language and you were thinking, right, I want to include a simile and a metaphor, have you got any very lovely juicy choices that you would go for?

NAFEESA HAMID: Oh yeah, it's got a little bit of everything in it. So, it's the bit where Meena's gone out with Nanima and she's bumped into Sam Lowbridge and his gang. We've got a simile first. She says, "to see them shrivel like slugs under salt".

I think at that point, Meena is feeling so threatened by Sam Lowbridge and his gang that she needs some way of protecting herself and protecting Nanima. And the best way she's got in that moment, just like in many moments where she feels under threat, or where she feels like she's being attacked, or is in danger in some way, she uses her imagination, she escapes.

HOLLIE MCNISH: Can you just read that one out again, just so I can try and remember it.

NAFEESA HAMID: "Shrivel like slugs under salt". We've got some sibilance, alliteration.

HOLLIE MCNISH: This is a really nice quote. I wish I had thought of this one because this it's like simile, alliteration and you said another-.

NAFEESA HAMID: And sibilance.

HOLLIE MCNISH: I don't think I know what that means.

NAFEESA HAMID: That's the repetition of s sounds. Ss, ss, ss.

HOLLIE MCNISH: Do you know, if I was listening to this just now, I would stop us and I would write down that simile and I would just write down a list of four things that you can say about it. Like language techniques, what affect it has on you, and what it could be used for by the author.

When she describes Nanima, she talks about "sparks fizzing from her fingertips". This language is really magical, it's quite mythical. "Sparks fizzing from her fingertips".

You can hear them can't you, you can see Nanima, "sparks fizzing from her fingertips". It's like tssshh. Have you got a metaphor? Can I give mine about Nanima as well?

I've said it in a previous episode, but I think it's a really nice one to remember because I think it covers themes of friendship and belonging. "Suddenly I was in the middle of a soft warm pillow". So, the fact she said, "a soft warm pillow", she's described Nanima's embrace as a soft warm pillow.

It's not like a soft warm pillow, it is a soft warm pillow, it's a metaphor. And I think you can really feel it. It's all about the sort of sensation. It's soft and it's warm - those are both things that you feel.

NAFEESA HAMID: So, there's another example here that I’ve found where uh it's describing my favourite character, Daljeet. Meena is describing her and she says, "even at this distance her brown skin glowed like a burnished planet drifting amongst the off-white bedsheets". So, you've got a simile there, "like a burnished planet" is your simile.

And then she also goes on to say, "and then with one motion shook out a peacock-blue sari … which puffed outwards in a resigned sigh". Is her mama puffing out a resigned sigh? I don't know, is she tired? Just sick to her back teeth at this point of doing laundry, or is she sick of more than just the laundry?

What is this resigned sigh pointing towards? I really loved "like a burnished planet". I love that simile because there's kind of mirroring or repetition in that Meera Syal also uses planets to talk of Meena's father's character as well.

Meena says, "He could traverse continents with a stride and hold the planets in the palm of his hand." "He could hold the planets in the palm of his hand." Now that's a metaphor. Meena, I think she sees her parents as other-worldly almost.

HOLLIE MCNISH: Yeah. The language is rich, it's not simple, it adds layer upon layer of images. It's not blue, it's peacock-blue. And, you know, peacock, you know, we can see that, it's got that shimmer, it's got the turquoisey shimmer. It's just beautiful, and it's also magical.

I think one of the final things that is often easy to talk about is symbolism, like clothes are used to represent culture and identity a lot. And for Meena, the sari becomes a symbol of the Indian heritage.

NAFEESA HAMID: Do you remember when Anita comes over to Meena's house and she sees all of Meena's outfits in her wardrobe and she says, "Yow have got some amazing clothes here, what you doing hiding all these away?" That was a really beautiful moment, you know.

HOLLIE MCNISH: Yeah, that is a beautiful moment.

NAFEESA HAMID: And very symbolic of how much more of herself Meena has got shut in a closet.

HOLLIE MCNISH: That's all from Bitesize English Literature for now, but you can listen again to this episode and to the other episodes about character, plot, friendship, racism, and belonging. Search for Bitesize on the BBC Sounds app.

HOLLIE MCNISH: Hi there, and welcome to our Bitesize English Literature podcast. I'm Holly McNish, and with my guest, fellow poet Nafeesa Hamid, we've been talking about 'Anita and Me', Meera Syal's coming of age novel about a childhood caught between two cultures. In this final episode, we're gonna recap on some of the things we've been exploring in the previous six episodes, to help you pack those key themes and quotations safely in your mind to use later on.

Well done for sticking with us, and hopefully, by the end of this episode, you'll feel better prepared for your exam. Scribble down notes, pause, rewind, walk around your room repeating what you've heard, and listen again and again. You can find this episode, and all of the others about character, plot, friendship, racism, and form and language by searching for BBC Bitesize on the BBC sounds app.

So now this is really about helping you with one final step. Learning the quotes, learning the key themes, just some of our top tips and things that we've found helpful. I personally found it so hard to remember quotes when I was revising for my exams, and if you do as well, then hopefully we can give you some helpful tips to help you set them in your mind.

A few things about the quotes that's really important. They have to be accurate, so if, like me, your memory isn't perfect, keep them short, I would say. Another top tip would be to find quotes and use quotes that can cover more than one theme. These themes are not separate in the book, just like they're not separate in life. They're all interwoven into one another.

Racism and friendship and belonging have so many crossovers, so choose quotes that cover many, many questions and that you can make points about the language and the author's intention. So Nafeesa, er, let's take it in turns. You've picked a couple of quotes that you think are gold quotes, I'll call them. So would you like to start?

NAFEESA HAMID: So my first golden quote is 'Her brown skin glowed like a burnished planet'. And that's Meena describing her mum there and I just thought that was an amazing quote because you've got a simile in it, it's relevant to the themes of belonging, potentially even racism.

Meena is so desperate to be like Anita, and you know, get out of her skin, but here she is just describing her mum's brown skin as something ethereal, magical, out of this world, beautiful.

HOLLIE MCNISH: Ok, so mine is a metaphor. I think I've said it in about three of the episodes. The whole quote is 'Suddenly I was in the middle of a soft, warm pillow that smelt of cardamon and sweet, sharp sweat'. If I couldn't remember it all, I would just put 'In the middle of a soft, warm pillow'.

If I couldn't remember that, I would say that she describes being cuddled by her grandma, by Nanima, as a 'soft, warm pillow'. 'Nanima is a soft warm pillow' is a metaphor, and this, for me, covers so many different themes. The idea of friendship that she has with Nanima and how that affects her - her self-love, her self-worth; the idea of belonging, this is for me, the perfect image of belonging and what is home and home just being where you feel safe or comfortable or loved, and it's here, for her, in a soft, warm pillow.

It's also so beautiful because it's about being embraced, but it's also about embracing someone, there is a real balance. All of the imbalances in relationships in this book and now we've got this - this lovely balance.

And the cardamom in it is, like we're talking about symbolism, a symbol of this in the Indian heritage, and then the 'sweet, sharp sweat'. I like it because I like alliteration but I also like this build-up of images, and I like that they're a bit contradictory, that she accepts this person, the 'sweet, sharp sweat', especially for a young girl.

The idea of sweat being a positive thing, it's quite accepting. I really like it. There's just so much fuel to this quote. What's your next golden quote?

NAFEESA HAMID: My golden quote number two is er a phrase that's repeated a couple of times in the book, which is 'punched' or 'punch'. And the first quote is, 'As if I had been punched'. Meena says this when she's in the car with her mum and this older woman verbally racially assaults her and Meena's response to that is she says, 'I feel as if I had been punched'.

There are no words left for what she's just experienced. It's physical.

HOLLIE MCNISH: Listen back to the episode about racism, because there’s a lot about this quote in that episode as well.

NAFEESA HAMID: She has these physical responses a few times throughout the book. There's a point where she retches, there's another one where she says, 'I feel like I was spat at', and there's another one where she says it, 'felt as if I'd been punched in the stomach'.

HOLLIE MCNISH: Pause this now and write this down, because this is important.

NAFEESA HAMID: So you can either use the word punches, retches or spat. Those are the three most clear words that I can think of to describe Meena's physical response to the hatred that she's experiencing.

HOLLIE MCNISH: Which I think was the intention, isn't it, to make this language so physical, to try to give the reader some way of relating physically to this feeling. So I have one more quote. And the quote - and we've said this in a few episodes, and I think this covers all the themes when you say - we both thought of this quote as being one of the most important.

Or one of the easiest to put into lots of different essays. But the quote is, 'Too mouthy, clumsy and scabby to be a real Indian girl, too Indian to be a real Tollington wench'. There's so much to say about this quote in terms of language. It's such a balancing phrase, and to me this sums up the idea of belonging, being - being stuck between cultures, feeling like you're split.

Like you have to be one or the other. You can't be everything. It can be used in any essay on character, and Meena's character, and the character of her family on one side, the character of her friends on the other side. It can be used to talk about language and form.

There's so much to say in the language of this quote. It can be used to talk about friendship, in terms of wanting desperately to be this Tollington wench, to be in the wenches, to be the same as the other kids, to fit in. And then the idea of racism as well. It's kind of bound up in these - these two identities. What would you say about the language? Two top points about the language in this one, if you've learnt this quote.

NAFEESA HAMID: So you've you've got repetition there, too mouthy, too, too, too, too, too. The more you use the word too, the more emphasis there is on the fact that Meena feels that she's too much, or too little.

HOLLIE MCNISH: Yeah.

NAFEESA HAMID: And then you've also got the words mouthy, clumsy, scabby, adjectives that s up what Meena thinks it is to be Indian, or to be English, to be from Tollington. These are Meena's definitions of what is to be either as well. As well as influences she's got from outside as well, and people telling her what it is to be either of those.

HOLLIE MCNISH: And it's got the use of wench, the use of this dialect. Before we finish, can I just push in one quote. It was one of our highlights. When Meena says to Sam, 'I am the others, Sam, you did mean me'. It was so easy to remember because I basically dramatised it in my head. 'I am the other Sam, you did mean me.'

I could really feel it being said. There's so much to say about the fact that finally she really stands up for herself. It's such a turning point, and then she says 'you did mean me'. It's monosyllabic and it says a lot about racism, standing up to it, and about friendship, about the characters of Sam and Anita.

It brings back so much of the plot, and so many of the themes. So that would be the final one that I'd try to remember. So you need to think really carefully about which are the best quotations for you, to support your viewpoints about the book. Nafeesa, what's your advice?

NAFEESA HAMID: Give your opinion, back your opinion up with the quote, talk about the author's intent, what you think the author might have meant.

HOLLIE MCNISH: I could go on talking to you all day, Nafeesa, but we have been beaten by the bell. I never thought that you could actually enjoy the books that you were studying, but you can! You're allowed to enjoy them, and still talk about them. Thank you so much, Nafeesa.

NAFEESA HAMID: Thank you. It's been great chatting.

HOLLIE MCNISH: I really hope you've enjoyed listening to our Bitesize English Literature podcast about 'Anita and Me', and it's helped you to understand a bit more about the book and feel a bit more confident writing about it. Don't forget you can listen again to this episode, and to the other episodes, about character, plot, friendship, racism, belonging, and form and language on BBC Sounds, where you can also take notes, look at other Bitesize resources and listen to more series on different texts.

Good luck.