Summary

  • One of the big issues discussed on Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg was the key Supreme Court ruling that says a woman is defined by biological sex under equalities law

  • Lib Dem leader Ed Davey says there are still a lot of questions arising from the decision, including over enforcement

  • Minister Pat McFadden says the government, as an employer, will have to act, but there won't be any "toilet police" enforcing rules in Whitehall

  • Co-chair of the Green Party Carla Denyer says new guidance from the equality watchdog following the ruling is "rushed", "ill-thought out" and should be withdrawn

  • Ahead of the local elections shadow housing secretary Kevin Hollinrake says there will be "no pact" between the Tories and Reform UK

  1. Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg - recappedpublished at 10:18 British Summer Time 27 April

    That's it for another week, here's what we heard from our guests:

    Kuenssberg asked about the Supreme Court judgement that the legal definition of a woman is based on biological sex, and advice from the equalities watchdog:

    • Labour's Pat McFadden says the logical consequence is that people "use the facilities of their biological sex", but says there won't be "toilet police" in Whitehall and he wants everyone to be treated with kindness.
    • Lib Dem leader Ed Davey says more guidance is needed as he believes there is still a lot of "confusion" and "anxiety". He also says his party and others have been on a "learning curve".
    • Green Party co-leader Carla Denyer says her party is "really worried" about the advice, which she calls "rushed" and "ill thought out"

    And ahead of next week's local elections in England:

    • Labour's Pat McFadden says his party inherited a "difficult situation" and has had to take some unpopular decisions, but says he will not speculate on the result beforehand
    • Conservative shadow housing secretary Kevin Hollinrake said his party needs to correct some of the mistakes it made in government, but rules out any electoral pacts with Reform
    • In contrast, Lib Dem leader Ed Davey struck an upbeat tone for his party, saying it is possible his party could become the second biggest in local government
    • On the panel, both Labour Mayor of Greater Manchester Andy Burnham and Tory Tees Valley mayor Ben Houchen said it could be a difficult election for their parties
    • But Green Party co-leader Carla Denyer says she is pretty confident her party will increase their vote share, claiming people feel let down by the two biggest parties

    And Tory Hollinrake also told the programme he would bet his mortgage on Kemi Badenoch still being party leader at the next general election, despite speculation she could be replaced before then.

  2. That's a wrap!published at 10:02 British Summer Time 27 April

    And that's it for another week...

    Stay with us and we will recap and round-up the key moments from what was said on the show.

  3. Elite marathon races under way as 56,000 runners set offpublished at 10:00 British Summer Time 27 April

    Runners during the mass start of the London MarathonImage source, Reuters

    Before the show ends, Laura tells people to "get your trainers on" - pointing to two huge marathons taking place in the UK today.

    Thousands upon thousands of people will be running the 26.2-mile courses in London and in Manchester.

    The programme cuts to live images of the race in London right now where more than 56,000 runners are expected to cross the finish line along The Mall.

  4. Hollinrake says he'd bet on Badenoch still being Tory leader at next electionpublished at 09:50 British Summer Time 27 April

    It's put to Hollinrake that he's a bit of a betting man - would he bet his mortgage on Kemi Badenoch still being the Conservative Party leader at the time of the next general election?

    "Yes," he says.

  5. A Reform vote is a protest vote right now, says Hollinrakepublished at 09:49 British Summer Time 27 April

    Hollinrake is pressed again by Laura who asks if the Tories "might become the junior partner" in the future should a Reform UK pact arise - given the current polling data.

    "That's not how I see it," Hollinrake answers. "Polls today will not be the same in 2029.

    "Reform is a protest vote right now. What we need to do is get things right."

    But, Hollinrake accepts that Thursday’s election night "will be a difficult night in terms of seats".

    He adds that people need to remember that they are voting for the next four years, not the next few weeks.

  6. Should there be a Tory-Reform coalition?published at 09:47 British Summer Time 27 April

    Media caption,

    Watch: Kevin Hollinrake rules out Reform pact

    Conservative shadow housing secretary Kevin Hollinrake is asked if there could be a coalition between the Tories and Reform UK.

    "Not at all," is his response, adding: "There will be no pacts with Reform."

    He says there are "real differences" between the two parties, claiming Reform wants to nationalise large swathes of UK industry, privatise the NHS and seems to favour Vladimir Putin over Ukraine – something Nigel Farage's party would deny.

    Hollinrake adds that the Tories need to correct some of the mistakes they made in government, including on immigration.

  7. Labour and Tory mayors say local elections could be difficultpublished at 09:42 British Summer Time 27 April

    Also on the panel, Labour Mayor of Greater Manchester Andy Burnham says the elections will be "difficult" but the government is only 10-months in.

    He says Labour mayors are reducing the cost of transport and have given the north of England a "bigger voice".

    Tory Tees Valley mayor Ben Houchen says the argument of being 10-months in "isn't a great one" for the government, but says it will be an "extremely tough" election for his party.

    He says he believes Labour will have a "worse election" than his party.

  8. The Greens are growing as people feel let down by big parties, Denyer sayspublished at 09:39 British Summer Time 27 April

    Carla Denyer speaks with Laura Kuenssberg

    Sticking with the panel and Denyer - Laura turns to the local elections and what the Greens think of their chances on Thursday.

    "The Greens have been growing steadily," Denyer replies saying she is pretty confident the Greens will increase their share for the "eighth consecutive year".

    "People are feeling so let down; not only by the Conservatives but also by this Labour government who promised change but in power are tinkering around the edges," she adds.

  9. Greens will continue to liaise with human rights and LGBT issues, Denyer sayspublished at 09:38 British Summer Time 27 April

    Asked what she would like to see happen following guidance from the equality watchdog, the EHRC, Denyer says it is early days with the guidance only published on Friday.

    The Green Party co-leader says she will continue to liaise with human rights and LGBT organisations to get their expert advice but won't hesitate to push for changes in legislation if necessary.

    Denyer adds that the guidance does seem to leave some "big gaps" and "fly in the face" of the British tradition of "tolerance".

    She says her party is calling for the guidance to be withdrawn so the EHRC can consult everyone who would be affected and come back with something "more thought out".

  10. Denyer worried that advice has been 'rushed' after Supreme Court rulingpublished at 09:36 British Summer Time 27 April

    Media caption,

    Watch: Carla Denyer calls for EHRC to withdraw trans guidance

    Turning back to the panel, Green Party co-leader Carla Denyer is asked about the Equality and Human Rights Commission's interim guidance on how organisations should interpret the UK Supreme Court's ruling that a woman is defined by biological sex in law.

    She says her party is "really worried" that the advice has been "rushed".

    It's been "ill-thought out" and it's obvious they have not listened to trans people, she says, saying it will create a risk of discrimination, especially in workplaces.

  11. Davey asked if his stunts help the Lib Dems look seriouspublished at 09:36 British Summer Time 27 April

    Pivoting the interview to a fresh topic - Laura asks Davey about his political stunts which have seen him become a bit of a trend on social media sites including.

    "Does it help you look like a serious party?” Laura asks.

    "I am glad you have been watching my TikTok feed! Davey replies.

    "You will have seen my questions at PMQs, you will see some of our policy proposals, our manifesto and other serious things on our TikTok feed."

    Davey says they "mix it up with a bit of fun" and says he has been recently "poking a bit of fun at the current incumbent of the White House".

    He rounds off the interview by the potential US trade deal which could have an impact on British farming, online safety and the NHS.

    Davey ends the interview by reiterating that the Lib Dems are pushing for a Parliamentary vote on any deal struck with Donald Trump.

  12. Davey: It's possible we could be second biggest party in local governmentpublished at 09:31 British Summer Time 27 April

    Returning to Thursday's local elections in England, Davey is asked about the ambitions of the Liberal Democrats and whether they could become the second biggest party in local government.

    Davey says "that's certainly possible" and he is excited about the party's prospects.

    He adds that in many of the areas the Lib Dems are fighting hard it is a "two-horse race" with the Conservatives.

    The Lib Dem leader argues people remember how the Tories "let them down" in national government and that voters like his party's "community-style politics" of getting things done.

  13. 'We've all been on a learning curve' - Daveypublished at 09:30 British Summer Time 27 April

    Davey is asked about the case of a woman who was removed as a Lib prospective parliamentary candidate after she wore a top bearing the slogan "Woman: Adult Human Female" to a party meeting.

    Asked if the Lib Dems have made mistakes on this issue, he says "we've all learned a lot through this process", adding that applies to himself, other parties and organisations.

    "I think we've all been on a learning curve," he says.

  14. Ed Davey asked about key Supreme Court rulingpublished at 09:25 British Summer Time 27 April

    Media caption,

    Watch: Ed Davey calls for more guidance over trans judgement

    Listening to McFadden's interview was Liberal Democrat leader Sir Ed Davey who joins the show from south-west London.

    Does he agree with the guidance which has come out from the Supreme Court.

    The Lib Dem leader says his initial view is that there are still a lot of questions including "how is it going to be enforced".

    "Lots of people are confused in the trans community and elsewhere."

    Davey pushes for more guidance as he believes there is still a lot of "confusion" and "anxiety".

  15. McFadden pushed on Labour stance on single-sex spacespublished at 09:25 British Summer Time 27 April

    McFadden is pressed over whether he regrets the way his party has treated some of those who campaigned to protect single-sex spaces.

    He insists Labour has always said it would protect single-sex spaces, including in its election manifesto.

    The Cabinet Office minister adds that the debate has provoked "strong feelings" and people need to be treated with "dignity and respect".

  16. There won't be 'toilet police', McFadden says after Supreme Court rulingpublished at 09:24 British Summer Time 27 April

    Media caption,

    Watch: Supreme Court ruling: "There isn't going to be toilet police", says Labour's Pat McFadden

    McFadden is then asked about a recent Supreme Court judgement that the legal definition of a woman is based on biological sex.

    It's put to him that the Equality and Human Rights Commission's interim guidance says trans people should therefore not be allowed to use facilities of their choice.

    Will the government, acting as an employer, stop trans people from using certain changing rooms or bathrooms?

    He says the government will have to react to the judgement and guidance, but says "Yes, that's the logical consequence of the judgement and the guidance that's come out, that people use the facilities of their biological sex."

    He adds that "in reality", he says he's "probably not" going to be standing outside toilets to enforce a ban, adding "there isn't going to be toilet police".

    He says he hopes everyone is treated with kindness.

  17. Governing parties tend to struggle in local elections, says McFaddenpublished at 09:21 British Summer Time 27 April

    Kuenssberg continues to press McFadden on Labour slipping in the polls since the general election.

    McFadden says, "It is a pretty common party for a governing party to struggle in local elections". He adds, in his view that people calling elections beforehand is "disrespectful to the voters".

    But, Laura continues to question and asks whether he is concerned about a public sense of disappointment.

    "Are you relaxed about becoming losers on Friday?" Laura asks.

    McFadden replies: "I am never relaxed. Victories are earned, They are not proclaimed beforehand."

  18. What's gone wrong for Labour? Kuenssberg askspublished at 09:16 British Summer Time 27 April

    Pat McFadden

    Turning to Thursday's local elections in England, McFadden is asked what has gone wrong for Labour since last year's landslide election victory.

    The Cabinet Office minister says he doesn't like to call elections before they happen as it's the voters who should decide the result.

    He says Labour has inherited a "difficult situation" and had to take some unpopular decisions.

    However, McFadden says the country is "beginning to see something of a turnaround", with NHS waiting lists falling, the first breakfast clubs opening in schools and more teachers going into training.

  19. Local elections will be scrap between five different parties - Curticepublished at 09:15 British Summer Time 27 April

    Polling expert Prof Sir John Curtice is back to help us understand the context. He sums up the political landscape in just 60 seconds.

    "For the first time a Eurosceptic party, Reform UK, currently tops the national polls," he says. "At 25% they are narrowly ahead of Labour on 24% and the Conservatives at 22%.

    "Even the Greens at 9% are as popular as they have ever been. The Liberal Democrats at 14% are at their highest in six years -. Those two parties typically do better in local elections than in the national polls.

    "So, Thursday's ballot will be a scrap between five different parties. Britain's politics is fragmenting before our very eyes.

    "Four years ago when Thursday's seats were last contested, the Conservative's on 42% were actually six points ahead of Labour and gained over 200 council seats; Reform barely registered.

    "Now, the Tories are defending nearly 1,000 of the 1,641 seats up for grabs. Heavy losses, perhaps as many as half their seats, seem inevitable.

    "Who will gain - Reform certainly. By how much? Much less clear."

  20. Encouraging to see Trump and Zelensky meeting, McFadden sayspublished at 09:14 British Summer Time 27 April

    McFadden is first asked about efforts to end the war in Ukraine - does he believe, as the Americans say they do, that a peace could be close?

    "I hope so, if it's the right deal," he says.

    Peace needs to be "lasting", he says, saying Ukraine wants a "sense of security" that Russia cannot restart the conflict down the line.

    He says Keir Starmer sees a need for "long-term security" for Ukraine to ensure there is a "lasting peace".

    Asked about the images of the US and Ukrainian leaders yesterday, he says the scene was "a lot more encouraging" than the scene in the Oval Office in February.

    "What a contrast," he says, describing it as welcome.

    Trump and ZelenskyImage source, EPA